Why founding a three-person startup with zero revenue is better than working for Goldman Sachs.

July 23rd, 2010 by Antonio

The road to serfdom

I joined Goldman Sachs in 2005, after five flailing years in a physics Ph.D. program at Berkeley.

The average salary at Goldman Sachs in 2005 was $521,000, and that’s counting each and every trader, salesperson, investment banker, secretary, mail boy, shoe shine, and window cleaner on the payroll. In 2006, it was more like $633,000.

In the summer of 2005, I took one look at my offer letter and the Goldman Sachs logo above it, another look at my sordid grad student pad, and I got on a plane to New York within the week. I packed my copy of Liar’s Poker for reference.

My job on arrival? I was a pricing quant on the Goldman Sachs corporate credit trading desk1. We traded credit-default swaps, both distressed and investment-grade credit, and in the bizarre trading experiment assigned to me, the equity part of the corporate capital structure as well.

There were other characters in this drama. The sales guys were complete tools, with a total IQ, summing over all of them, still safely in the double digits. The traders were crafty and quick-witted, but technically unsophisticated and with the attention span of an ADHD kid hopped up on meth and Jolly Ranchers. And the quants (strategists in Goldman speak)? Mostly failed scientists (like me) who had sold out to the man and suddenly found themselves, after making it through two years of graduate quantum mechanics, with a bat-wielding gorilla peering over their shoulder (that would be the trader) asking them where their risk report was.

Everything is quantifiable

Wall Street is inward-looking and all-consuming. There exists nothing beyond the money game, and nothing that can’t be quantified into dollars and cents.

To cite a particularly grotesque example, once a year, one of the partners would buy a pallet of White Castle burgers and first-year analysts and associates would have a burger-eating competition (with some nominal amount donated to charity). All trading on the Goldman Sachs trading floor would stop as every man on the floor would gather ’round to watch the plebes stuff themselves.

Trading turned from interest-rate swaps (minimal notional size: $50MM) to the over/under on the burger count for a particular analyst. Occasionally, one poor schmuck would puke, and the partner would rush to catch it with a plastic trash bin.

The odds-on favorite was a young analyst, who’d employ the Kobayashi technique to get the tiny greasepucks down. After sweeping the field with 26 burgers eaten, he’d leave the styrofoam cup containing a congealed scum of burger grease and bun and patty bits floating on top, as mute testimony of his victory. The trading floor smelled like the inside of a deep fryer for the whole day2.

Death, Wall Street-style

hudsuckerproxy

Wall Street, like Scientology,  has an all-inclusive and claustrophobic value system all its own. Particularly at Goldman Sachs, which prided itself as a breed apart from other firms, this provincialism went even further. Former employees who had left Goldman were rarely mentioned. The unanimous phrase for it was ‘no longer with the firm,’ said in the same tone used to describe the passing of a family member.

This tendency reached the height of comedy inside the strategies division, where some of the quants published academic papers on the more theoretical aspects of their work. If an author quit Goldman though, his name would be removed from the official version of the publication. It got to the point that some papers had no authors, and had apparently written themselves. So it goes. No longer with the firm.

Line up and take a number

michelangelos-last-judgmentI envy the religious. Their inner lives are so blessed. If you’re Christian, do as the Gospel says, live a Christ-like life, and salvation is yours. If you’re Orthodox, wear all black and a Borsalino, check off your share of the 613 mitzvot, and you can await the Messiah with an untroubled heart. No gnawing sense of existential dread when staring at a Godless, star-filled night sky.

Wall Street is even simpler than religion. Your entire worth as a human is defined by one number: the compensation number your  boss tells you at the end of the year. See, pay on Wall Street works as follows: your base salary is actually quite modest, but your ‘bonus’ is where the real money is. That bonus is completely discretionary, and can vary anywhere from zero to a manifold multiple of your base salary.

So, come mid-December, everyone on the desk lines up outside the partner’s office, like the communion line at Christmas Mass, and awaits their little crumb off the big Wall Street table. An entire year’s worth of blood, sweat, and tears comes down to that one moment. And the entire New York economy marches to the beat of that bonus drum.

Without that number though, your privileged place in the New York hierarchy goes away. Gone is the house in the East Hamptons. Gone is the $2mm duplex on the Upper West Side. Gone is your kid’s $25K/year pre-school.

And that’s why Wall Street has that roach motel property: people check in, but rarely check out. By the time you’ve been through a couple of bonus cycles and seen that wad of cash hit your bank account in mid-January, you can’t imagine a life without it. And that’s exactly how the senior management at the Wall Street banks like it.

If Wall Street investment bankers were dogs, they would flaunt their expensive collars and leashes as marks of status, not realizing their true purpose3.

Jose Cuervo, meet Smith and Wesson

Giving sophisticated models and fast computers to traders is like giving handguns and tequila to teenage boys. Only complete mayhem can result (and as we saw recently, complete mayhem did result) . The quants were there to make sure the guns were loaded, but also to make sure the traders didn’t shoot themselves in the foot.

Not that we were terribly appreciated. In fact, we were basically the trader’s little bitches, and any quant who’s honest with himself realizes that. In time, we quants developed knee callouses from genuflecting to service the traders, on whose profits our livelihoods depended.

The only time we shone as stars was when some particularly hairy deal came up, and a befuddled trader came by, dropping off some thick bond indenture document, and asking for help4.

Peering into these deals was kind of like the zoomed-in penetration shot in a cheesy porn video: you could barely tell which end was up, which part was which, or, more importantly, who exactly was screwing whom. The quant aspect didn’t really matter at the end, as one lacrosse-playing Penn graduate would agree on price via phone with another lacrosse-playing Cornell grad, and life would resume its speedy course to another deal.

The sad truth is: quants were the eunuchs at the orgy. We were the ever-present British guy in every Hollywood WWII film: there to add a touch of class and exotic sophistication, but not really matter much to the plot (and maybe even conveniently take some bad guy’s bullet).

Wall Street on a bad day.

But things weren’t all bad! At its best, when the markets presented an apocalyptic Boschian landscape of damned souls torn asunder by hellish tortures, every Goldman grunt, sargeant, or general would close ranks and form a Greek phalanx of greed. Unlike almost every other bank on the street, Goldman could actually calculate its risk across desks and asset classes, out to five decimals5. The partners, who had most of their net worth wrapped up in Goldman stock, had tense meetings and came up with a plan to save the foundering ship. Favors were called in. Clients squeezed. Risks very quickly hedged and positions unloaded. Despite the mayhem (and all the promises of drama in Liar’s Poker) I rarely saw anyone lose their cool for longer than two seconds. We bled, but others died, and you felt fortunate to have a front-row seat on the biggest financial show in a generation.

Better to be first in a village than second in Rome.

World's largest bookie

Once upon a time, I picked up my early edition of the Wall Street Journal from a liveried doorman and knew that whatever financial conflagration was on the front page would be the mess awaiting me at work. I would ignore sub-million-dollar errors to our end-of-day profit-and-loss reports as mere ‘noise,’ beneath my consideration.  My colleagues and I would grow hoarse to thundering toasts of ‘To bankruptcy, gentlemen, to bankruptcy…” at our Friday post-work happy hours, all on the corporate AMEX6.

Now I log into our online bank account and nervously contemplate our balance which, like the heart monitor on a terminally-ill cardiac patient, just barely beeps above zero and is always decreasing. I sign up for trials of online services and make lengthy mental tradeoffs between the $30 and $50 per month plans. We work out of a cramped one-bedroom apartment, and have to time bathroom visits not to coincide7. Some days, it looks like we’re going bust within the week. Some days, it looks we’re going to be the next Google.

AdGrok world headquarters

What’s work like now? Writing code. Worrying about everything from our credit card billing to the pile of dirty dishes in the sink that will give us all diptheria some day. Writing linkbait blog posts to get us free PR (like the one you’re reading now). Schmoozing with investors, and playing the junior high school popularity contest that is startup funding. Keeping jealous tabs on other startups to see how they’re doing compared to us. Trying to put myself in the mind of our users to make something they’d want. Oh, and launching…finally, good God… launching.

You see, starting a product from an empty text buffer is very different from keeping a well-oiled money-machine running8. I’ve had apocalyptic fights with the other founders that almost ended in fisticuffs. I’m watching my four-month-old daughter grow up via Skype. These jeans I’m wearing will likely fuse with my skin at some point if I don’t take them off. I haven’t seen a paycheck or a loving woman in much too long.

You know what I regret most though, going from Goldman to this?

Not having made the switch earlier.

The Goldman meat grinder doesn’t really need me. It doesn’t really need you either, gentle reader. That feel-good saying that made the rounds on Twitter a couple months ago is actually totally right: go out and write your own story, or you’ll just be a character in someone else’s.

  1. For those truly unfamiliar with this bizarre chimera of the modern age, the Wall Street quant, please see here. []
  2. To fans of irony, Wall Street provides endless delectation. Once, after a particularly competitive round of Friday afternoon push-ups and id bingo, a memo went out to the entire floor about office decorum. It basically boiled down to a reminder about how betting was prohibited on the trading floor. It reminded me of that classic scene in Dr. Strangelove when George C. Scott gets into a wrestling match with the Russian ambassador inside the control room at the Pentagon, and is sternly told, “Gentlemen, you can’t fight in here. This is the war room!” []
  3. Ok, with the canine reference, the jig is up, and it’s clear that this entire blog post is just a wordy version of Aesop’s fable about the Wolf and the Mastiff. For the hurried, please just skip the rest and read that instead. []
  4. It’s a somewhat different story on structured credit desks, where numerical modeling is perceived to be more important. Also, on algorithmic trading desks, where the quant writes the code that does the trading, and the sometimes blurry line between quant and trader basically disappears []
  5. At the risk of getting sued, let me throw you geeks a bone and part the Goldman veil a bit. The Goldman Sachs risk system is called SecDB (securities database), and everything at Goldman that matters is run out of it. The GUI itself looks like a settings screen from DOS 3.0, but no one cares about UI cosmetics on the Street. The language itself was called SLANG (securities language) and was a Python/Perl like thing, with OOP and the ORM layer baked in. Database replication was near-instant, and pushing to production was two keystrokes. You pushed, and London and Tokyo saw the change as fast as your neighbor on the desk did (and yes, if you fucked things up, you got 4AM phone calls from some British dude telling you to fix it). Regtests ran nightly, and no one could trade a model without thorough testing (that might sound like standard practice, but you have no idea how primitive the development culture is on the Street). The whole thing was so good, I didn’t even know what an ORM really was until I started using Rails and had to wrestle with ActiveRecord. The codebase was roughly 15MM lines when I left, and growing. I suspect my retinas are still scarred by the weird color blue SecDB was by default. []
  6. If the thought of a group of credit quants drinking toasts to bankruptcy evokes the image of a group of surgeons toasting death, or policemen toasting thieves and murderers, you’d be quite apt in your mental metaphor. One, sadly, can’t exist without the other, so why not celebrate the raison d’être? []
  7. Compared to Goldman though, this is sweet luxury. After a particularly stressful trading day, the bathrooms (all of two for a 300-400 person trading floor) looked as if  busloads of diarrheal American tourists fresh from Tijuana had taken turns unleashing squatting monsoons in the stalls []
  8. If doing a startup is like rolling a boulder up a hill, then working at Goldman Sachs is like rolling it down the hill: you just have to stay out of the way of the boulder. []
  • K

    As a GSer that is “no longer with the firm” I hear you. I left GS for a financial startup, and it was awesome. The freedom, the lack of BS, being able to drive the ship and actually be able to have a real impact on results- it was fantastic. The self-driven pressure to perform not because some guy you hate might pay you a lot of money, but because your coworkers who you have gotten to know and care about are depending on you… can’t be beat.

    That said, there is a bit of inaccurate information in your post concerning the average salary. That figure does not include the shoe shine guy, the secretaries (though there are only a few left in the whole firm anyway), and people like that. That whole class of staff is almost entirely consultants. In fact, most of the new hires when I joined were consultants. In some areas a bit down the trough like on the IT teams, it was actually something of an honor to actually be an employee. This had a few benefits for the firm: It kept official headcount low, which makes the shareholders happy. During a downturn, it’s hardly even necessary to lay people off- you just cut out the contractors at the first whiff of trouble. When something really blows up and embarrasses the firm, you can blame it on a contractor. I actually saw this occur, the only bright side is that after the contractor who was supposedly responsible for an F up seemed to be quite happy upon his departure- presumably being the fall guy is quite lucrative.

    Unfortunately that start up didn’t work out so well, and now I am back at a big soul crushing bank. I have no inner motivation anymore, and hate my life. Lets hope I get paid this year…

    -K

    • admin

      My sympathies. There’s a whole other world out West, dude. I encourage you to look into it.

      • http://www.dataspora.com/blog Michael Driscoll

        Antonio Garcia-Martinez, I like your style. If nothing else, I hope you emerge from your foray into the online advertising world with a book contract.

        • admin

          Hey Michael,

          Seeing my name on a book in a Barnes and Noble window is definitely on the bucket list. I hope I manage to score one at some point too.

          • Jing Jong

            This is some really really good writing. I second the guy who says you should get a book contract.

          • admin

            Thanks for the props!

          • Sydney M.

            You are a terrific writer!! As an ex wall streeter and a woman ( a truly disastrous combination!!) I could another ten pages to this, but not alas, as eloquently as you!!

          • admin

            Yeah, being a woman on a trading floor warrants its own post. You should write it…!

          • Larry Wallace

            Excellent writing. Can’t wait to read more from you!!!!

          • steve

            Enjoyed this, I read Liars Poker 11 years ago when i first got into trading. Nice to know that inside Goldman there is still no god above a dollar bill.

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          • Mike R

            You probably will. You write very well. (Well, except for “footnote #7,” maybe. Wink!)

            And if you need help with the Perl and Python, you got my address and you got Skype. (Wink! Wink!) Just not 44 million lines of it.

            We really do have some of the most abusive work-situations out there, in a lot of places, that really are a direct throwback to the 18th and 19th centuries: situations that (hmmm….) were the inventions of these guys’ grandfathers and greats. (Do I see a pattern here?) First they stick you on the bus, and then, when your lungs fill up with carbon, under it. But, “when you scheme to sit down for dinner with a lion, kindly notice that he pours only one glass of wine.”

            Much better to say: “the show closed on Broadway after two-and-a-half minutes, and nobody at all showed up, but by god, it was MY show.” And it’s not so bad, because the guys who put on shows are looking for people who’ve got the same scars and bruises that they do. Even if you Fail (and sometimes you don’t fail at all), you’ve learned first-hand how to Try. “Priceless.”

    • Trilliam Jeong

      Thanks very much for sharing this insightful view of a secretive world. I was desperately in need of some culture reference of Goldman.

      As an aspiring quant who would soon join the recruitment battle, Goldman has always been on the top of my target list.

      To my mild surprise, Goldman shares a myriad of common traits with Salomon Brothers. But after all, a bank is a bank and traders are traders. Handsome paychecks come with “catches”.

      Congratulations on moving on to something you enjoy much more. Very often it takes tremendous courage to part the luxury and espouse your true passion. Wish you all the best in your future endeavor.

      PS: You did mention on Algo-trading desk, the traders/quants might enjoy different status. Since I have been a fan of historical Global Alpha, I wonder what it takes to get in to the desk? Is a MFE from a top school sufficient or I must obtain a PhD?

      • admin

        Depends. If it’s a top MFE program, you can probably get in the door with that. That said, lots of school have set themselves up as MFE schools, and they may not have the reputation to justify the cost. I would check whatever rankings are current. I know we hired several Berkeley MFEs at GS, to cite an example.

        Also depends on the role: the trader hiring process always seemed kind of random to me. Quants however were picked on smarts and whether it seemed they could survive the trading floor atmosphere. Most of them were PhDs or PhD track (I didn’t finish mine, for example).

        Just some thoughts off the top of my head.

        • Trilliam Jeong

          Very true. Like MBA, MFE is definitely one of the most lucrative degrees nowadays, at least for schools. I am in the U of Chicago’s MSFM. Despite the recent tumultuous internal changes, hopefully, it will still hold its elite status. Fingers crossed. ;)

          It could be challenging for me to start in the samer position to the ones held by PhD hires like yourself. Yet I still wonder from your personal experience what would be the most effective way to initiate your contact with your target firms.

          PS: It sounds like the traders didn’t fully utilize the superior tools that you provided. I don’t know if it’s quite common across the board. But it made me wonder that which kinds of impact do quants really have?

          • http://www.purchasebacklinks.net Patricia Turso

            wow, never thought about that

  • RA

    Wow. This was a fantastic post, to say the least. You must keep writing.

    I see Wall Street sucking up great engineers all the time. It’s sad, but I understand why it happens. Some of us have families and mortgages and can’t stomach the risk anymore. I can eat ramen noodles every night, but my kids can’t.

    There’s a lot more honor and fulfillment in making your living by creating stuff people need as opposed to moving money around, lying, stealing, and begging for bonuses. And in a way, it’s easier, too. But it’s a huge risk. Wall Street will always be there.

  • CreditQuant

    I too am a credit quant in London and about to board the train to startup land. We get paid in Feb, and I am quitting now, but I think if I take one more bonus, the golden handcuffs will snap shut and my soul will depart my body.

    Hence I leave the world of arbitrage-free, and pick up a pen to write the next chapter. Well done for doing this, and I hope I am as resolute as you during my forthcoming highs and lows

  • Nausher

    Antonio,

    I Agree with Michael & Om, your writing is witty and lucid.

    Do consider tech-writing, a weekly column, or at least an Economic-esque
    Non-fiction title with a single verb like Blink!

    My Best Wishes for your new venture, May it prosper and bring you happiness.

    • admin

      Thanks, Nausher!

      • http://naishe.blogspot.com Nishant

        Nice post. I guess, it’s a good idea to add a “Tweet” button to share your blog posts at Twitter.

        • http://www.iwikiphone.com Alexg

          I really enjoyed that blog. It had great resonance with me. I used to be in Finance and did a short stint on Wall Street. I always thought that I would be a banker for life. The crisis meant that I was kicked out of the industry. Although at the time, I did not know it it was probably the best thing ever to have happened to me. I am working in a start-up now and even though i earn less right now I am much happier actually being able to be creative. I am 28 so I was lucky to have seen the light early enough to make the change. I reckon if i was getting the yearly bonus I would find it very hard to leave, in fact no chance.

          Write that book, I’d read it.

          • admin

            Hey Alex,

            Thanks for reading. The book’s on the way. I’m almost out of material, so I have to go live a bit more before I can write it. ;)

            Cheers,
            Antonio.

  • http://www.pi.u azeem

    What was your modest basic salary when you joined?

    • admin

      Talking about money is so vulgar…;)

      • Nikola

        Seriously. I’d like to know too.

        • azeem

          It is the same all over the Street. It turns out the ‘basic modest’ salaries are normally higher than an equivalently qualified McKinsey consultant, and an McK consultant is normally considered extremely well paid. And so the bankers don’t want to talk about their salaries. Because then we’ll realise just how empty the complaining is.

          It is the corrosive nature of working for nothing but money that makes someone who is single & perhaps in their late 20s taking home $160k basic believe that that salary is ‘modest’.

          So I am sorry. I call bullshit on your post, and sprayed on jeans.

          Payslips. Scanned. Next blog post. Please.

          • azeem

            Ok. So I realise that might have been a bit aggressive–but I think it is an important part of the story…but http://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Goldman-Sachs-Senior-Analyst-Developer-New-York-City-Salaries-EJI_IE2800.0,13_KO14,38_IL.39,52_IM615.htm

          • admin

            Yikes, dude. I can’t talk numbers here. If nothing else, I might die of nostalgia…given that the paycheck now says….oh wait, there is no paycheck.

            Brother, spare a dime?
            ;)

          • RJ

            “It is the corrosive nature of working for nothing but money that makes someone who is single & perhaps in their late 20s taking home $160k basic believe that that salary is ‘modest’.”

            I agree, for trading, that doesn’t sound like a lot of money. My prior consultant, who now runs his own e-mini (S&P/Nasdaq) fund, make $250K w/o trouble. His average roundtrip is only some 15-20 contracts. He told me his other friends in currencies/forex are at $500K+ and all have easy opportunities to be making in the millions.

            The problem here is that you need to work for yourself, perhaps form a group with others, of like minds. The execs/partners in your firm are the ones who’re profiting w/o much profit sharing.

            As for comparisons to management consulting or even law practice, there’s no comparison. A junior at McKinsey or BCG bills out at $200 per hour, and thus, the firm gets a majority of it. Same goes for law. And unlike futures, equities, currencies, these companies have a lock on their client base. You just can’t go around them and bill directly. There are numerous folks who trade on their own, albeit at a slight disadvantage since they’re not market makers.

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  • Steve

    Great Story! Best of luck in your endeavors Antonio.

    I went to High School with Richie Rosenblum, but didn’t know he could stomach White Castle…didn’t know anyone could :)

    • http://www.ibm.com Rock On

      You have talent for writing my friend. You have the panache of Michael Lewis. I hope you seriously consider writing as your day job. You may succeed in your startup, but I cant imagine you would be much more successful than as a writer. Get yourself a good agent and sign a few book deals. Good writers, with such wit, insight and clean style are hard to come by.

  • http://www.privateworld.com Mark Jeftovic

    Great post. Brings back memories of start-up.

    One day my partner looked up from a spreadsheet and proclaimed “I think we can quit our day jobs now”.

    To which I replied “Yay! I won’t have to go into the office anymore!”.

    Then he deadpanned “Yeah, you’ll wake up in it”.

    So true.

    If I can offer one piece of advice: If you can possibly, somehow, bootstrap your way to profitability without taking on investment DO IT. Every moment you spend “schmoozing” investors is a moment you could have put directly into building your business (which includes writing brilliant link bait blog posts like this one).

    Every investment deal you court is the potential company killer that will wreck your partnership and your dreams and yank that great, profitable idea right out from under your feet. Picture people too stupid to work for Goldman Sachs but with the exact same ethos for overbearing greed: that’s where VC’s come from.

    Just launch. I’ll sign up and use it. There’s one customer.

    • Amen

      Amen. GS & VCs cut from the same cloth.

  • alwaysalpha

    That was absolutely fucking awesome. I’m not sure where you’re going with your start-up etc, but you — you — you my good man certainly have a bright future as a writer.

    Last evening I watched the Tony Bourdain (Kitchen Confidential guy) documentary and the gritty and well worded parallel jumps right out.

    Power on. Power on…

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  • Orderflowtradr

    Breathless, waiting for your book, you are born to write and good luck to your new venture

    • admin

      Thank you!

      I think so too. At some point I’ll wake up to that fact, stop trying to make money, and just do it.

      • Pittsburgh Chuck

        As an escaped scientologist, your claustrophobic GS career sounded way better to me. Imagine physical punchings and slappings and 11 dollars (no joke) a week, my average while in the “Rehabilitation Project Force” out at “Happy Valley”. Naw, you ex GS people have no idea what Scientology voluntary career insanity is like. 4 books by ex Scientology claustrophobes are out to compare. Chuck Beatty ex lifer Scientologist in Pittsburgh. Yes the Wallace comparison fits you! You’re good!

  • jo6pac

    Writing, almost HST and maybe you could earn a little $ this way while working on your start up. I glad you got out alive.

  • gavin

    Man, I hate to just jump on the bandwagon of praise, but you without a doubt deserve it. I’m a tad predetermined to love the article based on premise alone, but the anecdotes, footnotes, and just plain diction are so spot-on and revealing. Thank you for such an engrossing read.

  • prepalaw

    Dear Mr. Quant,

    please do keep on writing. Your article is well-written.

    But, your start-up has a basic problem:

    Who will guide you forward to “make money”.

    I assign no fault to your tenure are GS. I assign no fault to your departure. But, please, ask yourself this:

    What have you learned in the last five years after departing grad school?

    If you want to succeed in business, you will have to become an aXX-hole, a deceiver, a manipulator; and also acquire other odious traits, just to plain survive.

    Behind every great fortune, there is a great crime.

    It is very clear that you understand how the system works. Are you not going to exploit, for profit, the weaknesses that you describe in your missive.

    What is incomprehensible to me is why you have such money problems. Did you not adopt a frugal lifestyle and save 20% or more of your GS after-tax pay? Did you and your colleagues not prepare yourselves, financially, for the loss of your GS pay niveau, to subsist on something much more modest. Instead of renting an apartment, why are you not running your business out of your grandmother’s attic, basement or garage.

    Possibly, you guys are not businessmen. After you read this, just take a good look at yourselves in the mirror:

    You are smart guys, who could not complete your PHDs. You were overpaid at GS. So what. You could have gone and worked as teachers at a community college. No. You went for the Big Bucks.

    But, your “conscience” did not allow you to persevere. You volunteered for the assignment. But, when the going got too tough, you resigned. You are a quitter.

    That is why your business will fail. That is why you and your partners are at each others throats.

    I will give you some unsolicited advice:

    Turn your business over to a businessman – like an asphalt paving contractor – and do what you are told. You will learn then that life was much more rewarding at GS.

    Good luck and over and out.

    • G

      Fuck. John. Galt.

    • suej

      This article I found retweeted on Twitter – and i’m so glad I did! Excellent writing – just wanted to read more and more! Work for a business development company in Norway, and I have just forwarded this article to my colleagues – I just know they are going to appreciate it as much as I did.

      PS:By the way and off the topic – If you are looking for good trials online check out sitepoint’s geek out (It’s not a plug, I have just signed up to their mailing list like everybody else), because you get great discounts for online services – like paying $15 for something that might otherwise cost $180 – maybe also a great way to promote adgrok – just a thought:)

      Wishing you the very best

  • http://www.TheHelmsman.com Larry Poh

    Wow! Excellent writing…very creative…imaginative. Greed, in all its flavors, is a serious sickness. The bottom line is, no matter how much you have, it isn’t enough and will never be enough. My personal problem is that I absolutely have to feel I’ve earned what I’ve been paid. I thoroughly enjoy making “my daily bread” and enjoying life. Heh, write that book, the creative process is soooooooo rewarding…so satisfying.

    • Tanner

      “The bottom line is, no matter how much you have, it isn’t enough and will never be enough”

      Sigh …

      What is it with the 7 deadly sins types? Money does matter.

      Here’s a counter example, I know a woman and she’s a dentist. She pretty much despised her job when she first got started, however, thanks to the overall lack of licensed practitioners, she’s able to work 3 days per week (a fill-in for the mainline staff) and earn $100K/yr.

      Guess what? She now likes her work because in reality, she can tolerate pretty much anything, if it’s only half a week and pays $100K. She’s not interested in any other field because that would be 5 days per week, full time schedule. And seeing dirty teeth, for truncated periods of time, isn’t such a bad deal.

      3 days/$100K, isn’t that kinda proportional to what a lot in finance make, if you factor out the bonuses? But yet, I keep hearing these Biblical/Dante diatribes about greed and how money doesn’t lead to happiness.

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      i’d say, sometimes i don’t understand why some people just have to fill the blog comments with junk. Really just stop. Its way too annoying and it makes me just wanna stop coming here. On a side note, great post bro.

      • http://www.startbreakingfree.com Brian Armstrong

        Great post! Thought I was reading Paul Graham there for a minute :)

        • admin

          Oh! You make my heart flutter with your praise….

          The most flattering comparison I can think of. Thanks for reading.

        • T E Gautham

          In fact, I thought I was reading Michael Lewis for a minute.

  • ECONOMISTA NON GRATA

    Although you sound sincere and I don’t question your credibility, I find you guilty of the sin of lust….. I question your integrity…

    You seem to place a disproportionate amount of effort and value on financial success. The whole undertone of your conversation was that there must be a better way of achieving financial success (FAME), having all the right things and the unique approval of the social order. You’ve been brainwashed. All you seem to be saying is that you want to replace the powers that be, with you. I find that rather narcissistic to say the least.

    However, you are right about all the assholes at Goldman, that’s where my theory that “the ratio of douche bags is constant”, went down the toilet.

    Go back to your wife and kids, if she’ll have you and love you as a common man. You’re not gonna make it in my game kid, this isn’t a game about being bought and sold, it’s a game about buying and selling…. Go and write your book, you’re good at that…. Just think, you’ll be a famous author and maybe you’ll get an occasional spot on CNBC as a slightly offbeat yet acceptable pundit. There’s notoriety and money in that.

    Best regards and best of luck, you’re going to need it…

    Econolicious

    • pjwrites

      Just a wee bit officious, aren’t we?

    • Tanner

      “I find you guilty of the sin of lust….. I question your integrity…

      You seem to place a disproportionate amount of effort and value on financial success.”

      My, my… aren’t we being un-American here?

      Answer this question… if neurosurgeons’ salaries dropped from $500K to $75K, what percent of US nationals would apply for this type of training for the ‘love of medicine and mankind’?

      Exactly, the govt would have to issue work visas to bring neurosurgeons into the US. Everyone else, who’d grown up here, would simply get an undergrad degree in accounting and be done with it.

      Surgical specialties would go the way of nuclear plant designers where the vast majority of today’s mainstays were from the Three Mile Island era of the early 80s.

      “All you seem to be saying is that you want to replace the powers that be, with you. I find that rather narcissistic to say the least.”

      I think this is called a regime change and yes, those with higher than average IQs want to be on a slightly higher social totem pole than a postdoc, working in someone’s basement lab for breadcrumbs. If this is narcissistic, then please start lecturing those in our top 25 law programs and let ‘em that they shouldn’t want to be law partners or state/federal judges but instead, should do pro-bono work for the middle class who can’t afford > $250/hr legal advice.

  • http://bankbank.net BankBank

    very enjoyable post. was linked from the comments at dealbreaker.com .

  • James

    I’ve enjoyed reading your posts. I am a journalist. I produced House of Cards for CNBC about the origins of the financial crisis, and I am now a producer at 60 Minutes looking to do the stories about the financial world that no one else is doing. Anyone willing to give me some guidance off-record?

  • Confused

    As someone who’s debating between going back to a school in Cambridge and staying back in my current job on Wall Street, I find your post to be intriguing.

    I suppose I don’t win any prizes for guessing which of the aforementioned options you would advise me to take ? ;-)

  • Louis Proyect

    I don’t think it is useful to talk about an “average” Goldman salary. You need to look at the median average to get an idea of what the typical employee makes. I was a programmer at Goldman from 1986 to 1988 and I didn’t make anything like the average salary cited above, taking inflation into account. This is not to speak of low-level clerks, messengers, etc. Here’s my take on working at Goldman:

    http://louisproyect.wordpress.com/2008/05/10/goldman-sachs/

    • admin

      You’re right. And that’s kind of the point. Think of what the salaries must be on top to skew the mean so much….

  • Louis Proyect

    I obviously meant to write median, not median average…

    • http://www.knee-pain-treatment.com/ knee pain treatment

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      • admin

        Sure, do it. Cheers, A.

  • dbr

    Epic read. I hope some literary agents are reading this.

  • Hungry and Homeless

    Great story and even better writting! I knew there had to be some GS’s that still had a soul.

    Do you think Goldman got off easy with only a $600M fine? Word on the street is that many of them should be wearing prison pinstripes for life.

    How many millions of peoples lives do you think you were in part responsible for ruining? …Since you’re cleansing your soul and all. No hard feelings, everybody makes mistakes.

    But let’s see how far you’ve really come…will you post this comment and then will you respond to it???

  • John

    Great article, but I am left to wonder if there is possibly some happy medium between high earnings gained through speculation with other people’s money, and low earnings through speculation with your own. Time is a valuable commodity.

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  • Wolfrank Guzman

    Congratulations on an excellent read that is both poignant and interesting.

    • bdg

      whiners and complainers

  • WStreetrecruiter

    You’re a genius, Antonio! I.Love.It …Your article is very well-written and had me wanting to read more.

    • admin

      Thanks!

  • that guy

    i don’t post many comments, but i just had to say that your writing is witty, funny, and damn enjoyable. please write a book someday because i am sure you will have a good story. also, good luck.

  • Sean R.

    How wonderful that we have something here which makes GS laughable. Who could take serious a company which is venal in the extreme, without any positive personality traits, and relies on pure snookery? What a cancer! But, they cannot be put in their place until we see them for what they are, the characters in your story, with the vivid imagery of Bosch and replete with the self-degradation of eating contests. With more attitude like this I think the government could put these creeps in their place, as did FDR. (1)

    Now, for a challenge: what would you do to rid us of this genital wart called post Glass-Steagall banking, where an oligarchy sucks money out of productive investment to seek short-term profit, or losses as we’ve seen?

    1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JVFgdd6VHg

  • Sir Will

    This is a great article…looking forward to your next post.

    • Lonnie Griffis

      L. G.
      As another former GS alumni, I agree with K. above, that most GS workers are contractors now. Only a few reach full employee status. It really helps to firm up the bottom line when you can let people go in mass quantities whenever things get a little rough.
      Most GS workers are on a tread mill, being hired and let go from GS multiple times. Many have been hired, fired, and rehired a dozen times. It’s the nature of the beast there.
      As to the comments about your not having what it takes to run a business – ???
      I have managed for others and owned my own successful businesses, but just because I did not stay with one company, and have not finished my PhD, does not mean I am a loser. Nor are you or anyone else who chooses to step out and build their own business. Only a fool would wish to remain an employee, a “wage slave” in today’s business environment. If you work for others, you are forever at their mercy, because not only could you be fired at a whim, but they also could just screw up and fail – leaving you are everyone else out of a job. The only way to have any control over your destiny is by owning your own business, no matter what it may be.
      Just remember that most new start-ups fail, and if one fails just try again until you succeed. Most true self made men failed repeatedly before they found the right business, the right market, and the real key to the success they were seeking.
      Besides that, a PhD – it looks good on the wall, but what is it’s real value? Unless you want to teach, that is. I’ll get mine one day, but only for personal fulfillment reasons. Of course, I did work with many PhD’s when I was working for the government, at the “Agency” no less, but let’s face it – most of the people I worked with there were people that made the “Quants” at GS look like kinder-gardeners. They were like “Super Quants,” but most could not tie their shoelaces, or even match their socks. Oh yes, those were the days. I fit right in there.
      Anyway, keep working toward your goals, and one day you’ll find that the journey – with all of it’s ups and downs – was really what made life worth living. Goals reached no longer motivate, and they tend to quickly lose their luster. Always keep reaching for the stars. (but build a nest egg for later.)

  • Ka

    very interesting… you should keep writing…

  • stephen etzine

    great writing…. besides Matt Taibbi, I haven’t seen anything this well written on GS.
    thanks

    • admin

      That is high praise! Thanks.

    • Goose

      This was sent to me by a friend who also quit banking to begin his own startup. I’m a GS alum myself and have no great love for it and although I agree with the general gist of what you say, your caricature of banking is a bit ridiculous. Also, I hate to say it but your daughter probably needs you more than the ultimate consumers of whatever website you’re building need you to provide them with a slight variation on some unnecessary online crap they’re receiving already.

      • admin

        What was ridiculous about it? My chums on the desk found it spot on. Unless you’re talking about ‘banking’ more broadly, and not the trading desk for a US or British bank.

  • TechExec

    Are Wall street people are so self centered they really think that they’re salaries are higher than everyone’s? Really? The wealth of the US is not in firms who’s only product is a percentage of money. GS does not make anything! Apple is worth 3 TIMES what GS is worth, and they really only make gadgets. The worth of this planet is in houses, cars, planes, trains, rockets, biotech, etc.

    You guys really need to get out and I don’t just mean leave GS and run to another financial firm, a bank, a hedge fund. Trading public financial instruments (equity, etc.) is trading on the completion and success of ingenuity. Financial firms are not the initiator of invention, though self-centered reflection seems to indicate to me that you all think so, they are the end result of invention when monitization of that invention can help others share in the wealth created or beget some future financial infusion.

    The future is and has always been in creating actually products — don’t get mental masturbation (quantization) confused with that.

    Have a nice day.

  • http://www.DumbLittleBlog.com Jimmy

    wow…this is the first post I read from you and I don’t even know how I got to this website, but your post was amazing and I love that you seem to be existential and sometimes I’m also envious of gullible religious people. Anyway I’m subscribing and I hope your start-up takes off like a fucking rocket.

    • admin

      I do too. If nothing else, it’ll be an exciting ride…

  • Sarah

    very nice writing antonio.

  • K

    Don’t normally comment, but this article was too fantastic! Like above posters, wishing you the best in your web endeavor, and if not at least a book contract.

    • admin

      Book contract. Now there’s an idea…

  • http://www.greentrumpetlab.com Michael Chen

    You write very well. I feel sorry for you that you didn’t at least make an attempt to do some research in your field. You wasted a precious spot in the Ph.D. program that would’ve benefited someone more determined and more passionate about Physics. In 2000, I had to choose between 50,000 options at Google (in 2000) vs doing interesting research work based on my own ideas, and I chose that the latter. As my former manager, a well-known cryptographer/mathematician said, one can always go to make money at any point in his life, but should reserve his youth for something lofty. I hope you’ve learned your lesson.

    To your credit, you did devote five years of your youth to physics and was quick to jump off the GS ship. You seem like a nice guy. Just misguided by the society. Best luck. I hope after making your pot of gold (or feces according to Freud) from this funny startup, you can go back and do some research.

    • C

      Research is highly overrated. It is just very poor kids getting told to do student projects to help professors get tenure. The social aspect is 5-6 years of solitary confinement, unless you try really hard to make friends with people who are usually more introverted than you, and don’t want to be friends. Coming from a Ph.D. there is unlimited upside doing pretty much anything. Including research as a professor or in industry, where you get a lot more respect and financial support.

      As for the selfless dedication to help the world by doing research, that is mostly just a con line used by professors to motivate their students. Occasionally there will be Einsteins, but I find as I get older that I more pity them than celebrate their intellectual successes, as they had to invest a whole life of loneliness and being cut of from normal human beings to achieve that small success. Look at the math department at MIT or Caltech. These are not happy people, they are human sacrifices…

    • Ronnie

      Sorry Michael, but it sounds like you’ve fallen for the shortage of scientists and engineers myth, started by the NSF back in 1988.

      PhD students and postdocs are the equivalent of contract, unpaid research assistants for tenured or non-tenured academicians, not persons pursuing their so-called *dreams*. Until this fact is acknowledged, professors will not have any credibility outside of their private social circles.

      Here are paid professionals, with technical educational backgrounds … Physician, Pharmacist, Dentist, Patent Agent, Nurse Anesthesiologist. One can get degrees a/o experience in the above, and find paying work in the real world.

    • Tanner

      “You wasted a precious spot in the Ph.D. program that would’ve benefited someone more determined and more passionate about Physics”

      Clearly, this is a brainwashed academic type.

      There’s nothing about a PhD program which is precious, PhD = Piled Higher and Deeper.

      The best students pursue MD-PhDs because there’s an exit strategy in place. It’s called becoming a doctor, all paid for by the medical scientist training grant. Sure, add 4-5 years to medical school but there’s practically no debt and a lot of credentials esp for places like Johns Hopkins, Harvard, and Columbia for clinical (plus research oriented) residencies. I assume that academic types all love prestigious institutes to train in.

      Sure, as a PhD, you work hard, publish a few papers, but then guess what … your professor gets the credit and you’re the 2nd or 3rd name on the paper, if lucky. I think even the eunuch on Wall St has better options … which is to apply for another hedge fund job or start one’s own trading dealbook with former colleagues.

      I don’t mean to burst anyone’s bubble who’s on this forum but really, the days of internet startups are dwindling. The Brin/Paige train had left some time ago.

      And finally, PhDs in the sciences either live under bridges or under the lab bench. There’s an old saying … ‘What do elephants and scientists have in common? They both work for peanuts!’ The job market for physicists isn’t taking off any time soon.

      If one has a current position in the financial service sector, either lateral move into a better job or if you’re fully burnt out, learn to repair cars and become a grease monkey.

  • http://www.quantumwm.com Darius Gagne

    Could not agree more. After a similar path from a PhD in theoretical partical physics (UCLA) to desk quant in fixed income derivatives at UBS, Merrill and PIMCO, I eventually started my own two-partner wealth management RIA and it was the best professional move I ever made. Amen.

  • Penelope Brown

    Q5?

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  • http://www.safdaranalytics.com/ Shabbir

    I left GS in ’97 to start a digital agency in DC. I worked in IT under some great partners and managers, and so had a very different (and more positive experience) than those working on the revenue side. Every one of the managers in IT I worked with were great people, and I felt lucky to have them as colleagues. Others on the revenue side made more money, but I left with better memories.

    That being said, I remember my exit interview. I pompously joked with my interviewer, an absolutely great guy who left to do a startup himself, if they were going to counter offer me. “Would it make any difference?” he said?

    “No, you’re right, it wouldn’t. I’ve got the bug.” I replied.

    I’m now on my second startup. In between #1 and #2, I remember looking for a job for about a month, and never took a single interview. I knew I had another idea in me, and a passion to do it.

    I understand exactly where you’re coming from. You never regret chasing your dream and failing, only failing to chase it.

    Just remember the lesson of the GS partners who made partner at 45 and then “went limited” with their riches. They often started their lives all over again, starting new families (after painful divorces) and went about trying to have kids again to replace the ones whose childhood’s they missed.

    That story doesn’t just happen on Broad Street.

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  • http://spiritnewsdaily.com Donovan Moore

    thanks for the interesting article about Golden Slacks. If your start-up doesn’t pan out, you should write a book.

  • Jamison

    When I read the above, I’m kinda perplexed at the lack of career planning in general.

    For one, there are very few stable jobs in the sciences, outside of govt labs. And in general, one seldom makes a salary above $70K-$90K in pure R&D without the risk of that work being sent to Asia during a re-structuring. And finally, don’t be a lifelong postdoc, living from one lab to another.

    Thus, many in the sciences or engineering types, before looking into quant, trend towards areas like medicine or intellectual property law, both requiring a lot of school work but in the end, pay good six figure incomes w/o one’s life being in a boiler room full of sharks.

    Now, the final step and that’s Wall St. I don’t know about you but several traders, I know, trade their own futures, equities, or currency accounts and don’t work for GS. They make anywhere from $50K to $500K, depending upon their areas of interests and risk management. Thus, a lot of this could have been avoided had one simply watched ‘Boiler Room’ or ‘Wall St’ and heeded the common advise and that’s don’t work for someone else and expect to be a ‘made man’.

  • http://scottlocklin.wordpress.com Scott Locklin

    Your posts have had a lot of win the last few days. I was actually called up in the same round at Goldie Stix that you were, though it was for their prop trading group. I sort of kicked myself for not going for it. No longer. With luck and a few more months, I’ll be doing the same thing for myself I would have been doing for them a few years ago. I also agree completely about the merits of the Bad Area compared to NYC.

    Nothing like working for yourself. It’s the only free life left in America.

  • a few things

    My only problem is that you pretend as if all the strats on your desk agree with what your saying. I don’t have an issue that you hate your former job, but it’s not that case that all credit strats hate it.

    • admin

      I’m sure they don’t. Many are quite happy in their lot. If you’re the quanty type, and you’re resigned to being in New York, it’s an OK gig. Doesn’t mean what I said isn’t true though…

  • http://NagariDomain.com jinishans

    It was a really a great post.

    My bro had a startup in India, I work here in IT. He’s going mad at AdWords spending for the last 2 months, but, did not got expected results. If I stop the ad, no business. Can’t spend too much for SEO also every month, that’s more than my investment for my startup.

    Just heard about AdGrok. Signedup for the beta, looking fwd to use the product and utilize AdWords to its full potential, without spending those hundreds of dollars for SEO’s.

    Again, nice writing, continue your work on the same.

  • http://www.suzannahscully.com Suzannah

    First let me say congratulations on your new business! Second, I agree that I think you have a book in your future, you are a great writer. I just posted your blog to my FB fan page as I know that everyone would be inspired reading this. Thanks for sharing your story.

    • admin

      Suzannah,

      Glad you liked it. Thanks for reading!

    • Alex

      Fantastic post Antonio.

  • http://www.2men1cave.wordpress.com/ Dan Moore

    This article really hit home, Antonio.

    I was contemplating interning with Goldman this upcoming summer (you’re right, the money seems to be the only alluring part of it).

    I liked your writing; you don’t dress up reality, and its good to hear a clear voice ring through.

    You might like our blog, The Man Cave, something my roommate and I started at the University of Texas Austin last year.

    we too try to filter through the filth.

    cheers,
    Dan

    • admin

      Thanks for reading Dan.

      I’ve got no beef about GS really. I think if you have to work for a Wall Street bank, then that’s the one should work at. And it was a very educational experience. I just think it’s a good place to be from, rather than a good place to be at. As a young, naive guy, I would do it again. I certainly don’t regret it. Just watch the antics from a point of sarcastic remove, and don’t take it seriously. Otherwise, you will indeed get sucked in.

      Of course, you might claim that in order to succeed in that game, you have to take the game seriously. Maybe so. Maybe that’s why I wasn’t terribly good at it.

      Regards, Antonio.

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    • Cliff J

      You are an excellent writer. If your code doesn’t pan out and you end up an antigoogle, you would be the street commentator to follow.

      Maybe start with your own newsletter, and massage it into a new publication. You no doubt can find others with your insights and writing skills to spill beans for the clueless outsiders like me.

      Bear Stearns must have dumped a hundred potential journalists on the sidewalk…

      • admin

        Thanks! The thought has definitely crossed my mind…

        • whap

          “and i am you and what i see is me”.

          this reminds me very much of my own experience and is inspiring to see it displayed so elegantly.

          very much reminds me of the late, and great, DFW.

          particularly relate with this

          “As a young, naive guy, I would do it again. I certainly don’t regret it. Just watch the antics from a point of sarcastic remove, and don’t take it seriously. Otherwise, you will indeed get sucked in.

          Of course, you might claim that in order to succeed in that game, you have to take the game seriously. Maybe so. Maybe that’s why I wasn’t terribly good at it.”

          BEST OF LUCK IN ALL YOUR ENDEAVORS

          • admin

            Oh! Sweet ecstasy! Being compared to David Foster Wallace!

            I can now die a happy man.

            Thank you, sir, for reading….

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  • VIjay

    If nothing, you can write man!!

  • goldman widow

    Was good to read your commentary. I never understood anything about the inner workings of GS and my ex-husband would get irritated that I didn’t understand how important his work was. After years of listening to this, never knowing when he’d come home, having him miss important family events and the kids growing up, I resigned myself to being a ‘Goldman widow’. Good for you for getting out before it ate you alive, good luck on your new venture.

    • admin

      Well, that’s a cautionary tale. Indeed, Goldman’s work is important, and it’s important to Goldman employees. The question is how important is the employee to Goldman, and the answer is typically ‘not much.’ I saw many giants of the trading floor leave for one reason or another, the sort of guys who strode across the floor like gods among men, and after a couple days, the trading floor hummed along as if they had never been there.

      • Jay

        Why is the 3 person startup with zero revenue better than making 600K a year ? Few years of serfdom and investment acumen will set your finances up for life and pursue life’s other interests. Cant you suck it up ? People in lesser fortunate areas would kill to be in those shiny goldman shoes….

        Damn, if I can make 6 years of my salary in 1 year; why not ? I find the article amusing though not fully informational … please fill in the blanks. Not trying to be mean but dont get it – were you fired ?

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  • http://www.MensWorkoutHeaven.com Don Demarco

    Keep writing brother! As someone commented, you have a book in you!

  • http://www.a-mature.blogspot.com Anand

    Being a former Goldman employee, I could not agree with you more.. I would rather hang myself than re-join hell..:)

    • admin

      Ha!

      I, for one, don’t regret my GS experience. But I wouldn’t want to be back there….

  • http://skyara.com dennis

    you sir are a great writer, props.

    And yes, I know exactly how you feel, 3 person startup, almost zero revenue… left management consulting back in NYC for this, no regrets.

  • John

    I think for the first time, I’ll actually “like” this on facebook :)

  • http://www.raffybanks.com/ Raffy Banks

    Thanks for sharing Antonio and wonderful prose. I’ve reread it four times already.

    We are surrounded by meat grinders, rationalizing as we jump in. But we all have an obligation not to be little oxygen thieves, or exclaim, as Seth Godin urges, “this seat is taken!”.

    • admin

      Indeed. I would go even further back and quote Voltaire….’we must tend our garden.’

      Garden or meat grinder. Take your pick.

      Thanks for reading.

  • http://about.me/yannick Yannick

    Antonio, respect. I’ve done the same, after two years. Totally agree with you on everything, especially “By the time you’ve been through a couple of bonus cycles and seen that wad of cash hit your bank account in mid-January, you can’t… imagine a
    life without it. And that’s exactly how the senior management at the
    Wall Street banks like it.”. That is so true.

    Best of luck, go write your story now.

    • admin

      I’m writing it, I’m writing it!

      Thanks for reading and understanding…

  • Dash Riprock

    Is your middle name Michael Lewis? Love the writing.

    • admin

      Haha….a flattering comparison.

  • http://www.chrisranjana.com Web developers

    Well written indeed. Rather than being just a spoke in a big wheel, be a smaller wheel yourself.

  • formerGSemployee

    what is mentioned in this article is mostly true but every reader should know that A) this is common among all investment banks and B) GS, as a whole, has the most professional employees of any bank out there. i believe the entire financial industry needs to be changed. but please understand, GS actually acted as responsibly and carefully as any bank before and during the financial crisis.

  • Manish

    Do you know of any business organization that is (really) big, rich, successful and not evil?

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  • http://profiles.google.com/max.weinbrown max weinbrown

    I, for one, enjoyed this more than any equally glib or stupefying passage of the big short. Also, it’s pretty insightful to a GS candidate with nary a Phd… I imagine the Sisyphus metaphor could be extended to excrement in the case of the lowly code monkey.

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  • Josh

    I think that, once you get there, people respond in different ways. You either a) realize that you can’t live without the new money you’ve accrued, or b) realize that this money doesn’t mean as much as you thought it would. It doesn’t hurt that he has some savings probably from working at Goldman, but ultimately it looks like a personal decision. He’d much rather be working on something he’s passionate about than make that money, and he’s simply sharing it here for others with similar views to contemplate.

  • http://www.twitter.com/akikaikai Kai

    An amusing and well-written blog post. I hope you don’t mind, shared the link over on facebook. Looking forward to finding a book you’ve authored on Amazon!

  • Anonymous

    Carbon-based automatons like yourself do well at GS. Revel in the irony that your asking such a question precludes you from ever appreciating the answer. Funny too, that you should mention people in “lesser fortunate areas” wanting to be in “shiny goldman shoes,” considering how peoples lack of actual shoes in some parts of the world are a direct result of Goldman activities. Lemme guess…wannabe trader, right?

  • Mike

    GS really reminds me of “Alice in Wonderland” – cannot wait to get out of there.